Reporting from Washington, D.C. | What You Need to Know about the FEMA Recommendations

Jennifer Butler:Great. So before we dive into the report, how are you feeling now that the council has finally just officially released the report?

Mark Cooper:We spent a lot of time together, Jennifer. You and I have, but the council and I have over the last year. I don't want to say it's been anticlimactic, but it's been kind of hard because we're doing weekly, sometimes twice a week calls and I'll talk about more later, but a lot of time together. But I'm relieved that we finally got across the finish line after couple of government shutdowns and some other things that have occurred. But I feel really good. I feel proud on the report. I think we did exactly what we were asked to do and then some, but I'm relieved and glad that we got across the finish line.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, that's fantastic. I know it was a long time coming and we're grateful for your service on the council and everyone else who participated. There may be some folks that have joined us that don't know exactly what the council is. So for those that haven't been following it really closely, if you want to just give us a high level of what is the FEMA Review Council, why was it created and what problem was it meant to address?

Mark Cooper:Well, the executive order that the president released was back in January of 2025 to create the council, but our body was actually created towards the end of April when all the council members were named, although there was some work done in between by DHS and preparing us for our council to get together. The executive order from the president's perspective was I think he had some frustrations at what he had seen in the response to North Carolina and some of the things that had taken place and then based on his own experiences. I think when this started out and something we can talk about later on, but I think his intention was to either get rid of FEMA or significantly diminish that. When this team was established, before that, when I was asked that I possibly could be on this team, I'm a big supporter of FEMA, especially at the regional level, as you indicated, my time in Louisiana, but also Los Angeles and even working with them through Walmart and the private sector, I know the importance of FEMA.

However, I also know the bureaucracy that exists there and the frustrations, both in a governor's office, in a state agency and not so much with the FEMA regions, but with DC and we'll talk a little bit about that, but from the president's perspective, he wanted to see what could be done to either, like I said, get rid of FEMA or significantly redo FEMA. So that's what started it. But where it began, I think, from all of us that were on there, we had two state directors. We had Nimkit from Texas. We had Kevin Guthrie from Florida. The one FEMA person that was on there is probably the best person in FEMA right now. And even before that, Bob Fenton, who was regional administrator for Region nine, we had two governors, Governor Youngkin at the time for Virginia, Governor Abbott in Texas, former Governor Bryant. We had a mayor from Tampa, had a sheriff from Miami-Dade County.

We had a really good group of people that either had experienced responding to disasters or had some knowledge of what FEMA was about. I just knew going into this with the folks that were on there, especially the practitioners from the states I just named and Bob Fenton that none of us thought that there was going to be a time we'd get rid of FEMA, but there were things that we could do and recommendations, which we did to make FEMA better and more responsive.

Jennifer Butler:That's fantastic. And I appreciate you also sharing the other council members because that was very important to have lots of different perspectives and geographical representation. The president put out an executive order to establish this. Did the council have a specific set of questions from the president or was it given broad latitude?

Mark Cooper:We were given broad latitude. I mean, again, there were certain concerns he had, but the fact that we had people that had dealt with FEMA were in FEMA, that helped us to identify early on what the issues that were important. I will say this, that I think initially, and this is maybe what my small contribution was to the process was that the thought would be we would meet in DC in some basement committee room, conference room, but early on I said, "You know what? We need to go out and we need to talk to the stakeholders and talk to the people most impacted by disasters, which is what was the purpose of this council." So we did that. But to say that there was a set of questions, I mean, generally we got a directive from the Secretary Noam who was chair of the council, but we pretty much had free reign to look at everything and then taking the input from the stakeholders.

I know we'll talk about that in another question, but there was not anything specific that the president provided to us other than what was listed as its charge in the executive order, which was for us to look at recovery or response and recovery, although we did delve into other areas as well.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah. So thinking about areas of FEMA's performance or structure, you mentioned response and recovery. Did you guys look at staffing or sort of that federal state balance?

Mark Cooper:Mostly at a macro level we looked at staffing. One of the things that we were told, and this was coming from the FEMA team, is that FEMA had tripled in size in the last five years, not just because of previous administration had started before that. And that was at the headquarter level. And so we knew that there was, and a lot of that had to do with COVID and all the things that FEMA was doing with COVID, but also programs that had been established to oversee funding going to the states and the way it was described to me would go to somebody's inbox and it would take a week and then they'd send it back to the other person. I mean, just these delays. But again, that's as far as the structure, we looked at it more at a macro level, but nothing like specific like you should get rid of this.

It was more the programmatic parts of it, which obviously the staffing support that, but that's what we looked at is more programmatic stuff versus individual sections or anything like that within FEMA.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah. No, that's really helpful background. And you had mentioned the council's work and getting out and gathering input. So building on that a little bit of sort of gathering input nationwide, the council sought input from states, local governments, tribes, nonprofits, academic experts, all of the public, we all had an opportunity to provide our input. So can you walk through how that input was gathered and really how it influenced your recommendations, things like patterns, common conclusions?

Mark Cooper:Yeah, sure. Like I indicated, we made a concerted effort to go out to the people and to the stakeholders. And I would say, I would bet my current job on it that there's probably never been a process that has been as open and transparent and as forward reaching as what we did through this council. It didn't matter what state it was, it could have been a red state, a blue state, a hurricane state, a wildfire state, a northern state, a southern state. It didn't matter. We wanted to make sure if I had to look at a blueprint, it was making sure we hit all of the states, all 50, which we did and also trying to include all the regions, which there are 10 FEMA regions. And so in addition to that, there are also meetings with mayors, the National Governors Association. I know the Sheriff's Association, law enforcement, fire.

We went all out to go to get as much input as we possibly could, even Puerto Rico, which had a major disaster back, I think it was 2016 that they're still recovering from. So got a lot of great input and that's what we utilized. A lot of the stuff we knew was going to be a problem, but it just backed up the direction we were going. I will say this too, that by doing that and people knew that we were serious and that we were listening and I heard that as comments that they appreciated the effort that we made because face it, all of us are volunteers except for Bob Fenton who works for FEMA and it was taking him away from his primary responsibility representing California and Hawaii, which are states that are currently recovering from disasters, but we were all volunteers and so for us to make that effort was a big deal and I think the stakeholders really appreciated that.

And so as you asked the question earlier about how does it feel, it'd be a different feeling if I know we were behind closed doors and put this together and put it out, but the reviews that we've gotten and it's mostly because of the outreach that I feel really good and they've been for the most part positive

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, that's fantastic context because I think there could be some folks joining us today that don't realize how transparent of a process it was and the wide range of perspectives that you guys were able to receive everything, like you said, from governors to county emergency managers, disaster survivors. So with all of those wide ranging perspectives, how did the council reconcile differences in sometimes conflicting views?

Mark Cooper:Well, as I indicated, I think things went extremely well, but you did or you did have a lot of type A personalities in the room and everybody with their own opinion. But quite honestly, I mean, I was surprised at how well we all got along and the deference that we paid to each other and everyone's opinion mattered. I mean, you had, like I said, even within, we talked about the diversity of the listening sessions, but even within our group, we had Democrats, Republicans. I mean, I'm assuming what someone's party was based on where they came from and what positions they held various backgrounds again, mostly practitioner focused. Governor Bryant was the deputy chair representing, well, in the beginning, Christie Noman, he did a great job of trying to hurt ... It wasn't even hurting cats. I don't even know what would be a good analogy because that really wasn't necessary.

However, with all the stop and starts that we had, it's amazing that there wasn't more conflict and it wasn't just these meetings. It was the hours upon hours doing calls and also writing the report. I would say everyone knew what our focus was. This was a very important focus for us on what we were doing and I think everyone realized that and how important it was. And so I think that with just that in mind, we worked very hard and respected each other and got to the finish line with the report.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah. And it sounds like, like you said, there was a lot of kind of understanding and mutual respect among the council members, but also among anyone providing input. And as we know, things can become political very quickly, including this kind of a review. So how did the council maintain independence? Did you ever feel sort of directly or indirectly pressured to favor a particular political outcome?

Mark Cooper:There were reports that that was taking place and that our report was being gone through with fine tooth comb and they were coming back with recommendations. That just didn't happen. Now, granted, the Secretary of Homeland Security was named the chair, so certainly she's going to have input, but I would say 95, 99% of it was our input. It wasn't anything coming from DHS and they may have wordsmith a word here or a word there, but for the most part it was a very independent process. And I think if anything, if it was political, I think that in the very beginning they would say, "We want y'all to stay in DC. We don't want you going to Los Angeles and meeting with the mayor's staff." Well, we did do that. After the wildfires, a year after the wildfires, we met with the mayor of Los Angeles' staff.

She was supposed to be there, but had a conflict and couldn't be there. The same with some of the other states that were in the headlines of what was going on. We were able to work through that and I don't think it had any impact and certainly what we were hearing from DHS ... Let me just say this too, the support staff for the most part came from DHS and they were just incredible and that's not to say that both Governor Bryant and the DHS staff, the field, I think they call them the federal FCO, the officer that was handling this project, I mean, they probably had to work behind the scenes on some stuff, but what we did as a council, that was not brought to us. So we were able to do what we needed to do.

Jennifer Butler:That's fantastic. Yeah. I appreciate that background and context also. And just an overview of what the council has been working on and the process that you guys undertook. So moving into the recommendations and thinking about sort of FEMA's core role, right? So one of the major public questions has been, should FEMA be the country's primary disaster response force or should it be more supplemental and state supported? So how did the council approach that question?

Mark Cooper:Well, again, from the beginning, our thoughts were that we need a FEMA. There needs to be a federal organization agency that coordinates disaster response. So we got off that pretty quick, but the question became, what programs would be better represented and better delivered if they were closer to the regional or state and local level? And that's where we took it from. I mean, I myself and my experience in Louisiana, especially as it related to some of these grant programs after disaster, could take months or years to see that funding. And so we started there, what could we do to try to streamline those programs? The other thing too is, is that I've seen through my time that every disaster or minor emergency that occurs in a state oftentimes, excuse me, the states will go to ask for a federal declaration. That was the other thing that we looked at is we want to make sure that what FEMA is doing is only supporting those major disasters, not the small ones that the states should be equipped to handle.

And then part of this was the overriding theme was is what can we do to make states more resilient so that they can do that? And so I think we accomplished that in this report and its recommendations.

Jennifer Butler:Right. And I think thinking about the recommendations and then how disaster impacted states and individuals qualify for federal assistance, will the funding be structured differently in the past based on the recommendations?

Mark Cooper:Yeah. And I think what they're going to see, and again, these are just recommendations. FEMA would still, the president would have to agree and FEMA would have to implement, but I think what they're going to see is a much more streamlined process and simplified process. And I can give some examples. I mean, hazard mitigation, that's a big thing for state and locals, whereas they get over time 15% of what a disaster costs for them to use for hazard mitigation. Well, sometimes that could take years to get that funding. And so what we recommended is that within the first 30 days they would get 5% of that 15% so that they begin building immediately. So you would want them to start thinking about mitigation when they're doing the rebuilds and have funding to help with that. And then the other 10% of the 15% would come about six months later.

And so the federal government would take a look at that and if the disaster costs went up, then they would make right after that six months to give them the full amount that they would be owed. And if they ended up, they needed less, well, the discussion was with the group is don't take the money back, just make sure they're spending it on hazard mitigation because it's going to help FEMA in the long run. Another program, for example, and you're talking about for the individuals in the states is individual assistance. Right now there is 13 or 14 programs that they have to separately sign up for, go through the same processes, very cumbersome. We recommended that be one program and that we would only, as far as like housing assistance, is that it would only be for those that lost their homes, not for somebody had minor damage, that's something the state should be able to handle.

I mean, those are just two examples. And then also public assistance, that's a big one. That's a lot of funding that normally goes to the states. Same thing within 30 days, get that funding to them using parametrics, things like, if this size hurricane hits, use a hurricane as an example, hits a state, what would be the impact based on the factors that were involved in the current disaster? And based on that, using parametrics and the size of the population and other factors, give them that funding earlier than it normally would if they, because again, it could take years to get all of it, give it all to them upfront and then come back a year later and do an audit. And again, if they deserve more, make it right and if they spent more than what the disaster truly called for, let them keep it for hazard mitigation.

But those are just three examples.

Jennifer Butler:Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah. I think there's been a lot of talk about the funding shifts about particular programs have been in the news, whether it's hazard mitigation, public assistance, the BRIC program. And so we also know that one of the council's recommendations is to look for opportunities to streamline by shifting responsibility for things like environmental and historical reviews, audits, inspections down to the states. So how does the council envision states building the capacity to take on those responsibilities that if FEMA chooses to take that recommendation?

Mark Cooper:Well, I don't think that any state has 100% of the capabilities to do that. So they need to look to se if it's within their current staffing models, if they need additional staff and funding from the state. If there's a model that uses private industry to assist or a nonprofit to assist. And then also, as I indicated earlier, I'm a big proponent of the regions. Give more of those capabilities and support to the regions that know the states that are within their regions to help in those areas.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah. And I had mentioned earlier too the audit piece of it. So you've got environmental historical reviews, inspections, but then also audits. So the report emphasized the importance of robust financial controls. Being an accounting firm here at EisnerAmper, those are always top of mind and compliance is always top of mind. So for states who can't use their state auditor or comptroller for audits, the council advised considering using certified public accountants or accounting firms, how can states effectively leverage outside resources to satisfy these recommendations? Well,

Mark Cooper:I think first of all, there needs to be some criteria that are put out there for the states to follow. I think that would help to identify what firms can provide what they're needed, but also relying a lot on the state auditor to maybe do the oversight part of that for those auditing firms that are brought in. Somebody needs to audit the auditing firms or the other firms that are being utilized for different parts of disaster response and recovery. But I think again, the guidelines would be out there. You'd have the region that would provide the oversight, but you'd be taking it out of Washington DC where it's bureaucrat after bureaucrat, it's inbox after inbox to streamline it down as far as you can go and then give them the tools. And as you indicated, if they don't have that capability, there are firms that can bring into a system and if not, that's something maybe the regions could assist them with.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah. And I think thinking about regional responsibilities and FEMA responsibilities, the report also talks about shifting the training responsibilities to the states. So could you talk a little bit about, give some detail on the type of training that the council envisions the state providing rather than FEMA's responsibility for training?

Mark Cooper:Right. Well, currently there's a lot of training that's provided in Emmettsburg and near DC, but what the though would be you're still going to need some centralized national organization within FEMA or division within FEMA to set out the standards and material and there could be some training that could still be provided nationally, but the thought is, and I'll use our region as an example, and I hate to keep doing that, but you've got Texas, Texas A&M and they call it TEACS. Don't ask me what the acronym means, but they provide training. They could do training not only for Texas but also for states in the region as well as LSU has a program there that they could provide that training. So I think that's what they're looking at, but I don't think the role that FEMA has as it relates to training totally goes away.

They've got to set the standards on what needs to be taught. And I think you're looking at different areas, how to manage a disaster, looking at ICS, incident command system and some of the other programs, and I think that goes all the way up to 800. There's probably other numbers higher than that. I mean, that's one example. I know the Fire Academy does a lot of that training near DC. So it would seem like it'd be more cost effective if you had it done more at the regional or state levels. I think that's what we were looking at when we were discussing it.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense too. A lot of people either traveling to Emmettsburg or taking the online courses, the self-study courses, the ICS courses, having a standardization, having a course curriculum that students can take either self-paced or that are done at a regional level definitely makes a lot of sense. Thinking about standardization, I think one of the things too that comes to mind, you mentioned some of these programs can take years. It can take years to get funding, which also means then it takes years to get to close out. We know a lot of the very large disasters can take five, six, seven years post disaster to be through a recovery phase and then heading into closeout. So the council spent some time talking about closeout, expediting the closeout of these historical open disasters. It can be really complex. States and local governments have multiple disasters open at one time.

So as you guys were talking about closeout on the council, how did you envision this process speeding up?

Mark Cooper:Well, first of all, it's not all on the states that those processes or the firms that are assisting them that it's taking so long. A lot of it has to do with the bureaucracy in DC. And I've heard nightmare stories about there'll be a project manager at the national level that will be overseeing a project worksheet. Well, that person changes and somebody else comes on and then they have to start all over again, which is part of the reason for the delays. But then there is some stuff at the state level too, I think. But to your point, I mean, I know one of the things that we really highlighted was currently, I think it says eight years is the maximum amount of time. Well, nobody ... I mean, there's still some Katrina stuff that's outstanding, but we're really encouraging FEMA to stick to that eight years and then there would have to be some kind of incentive or disincentive or whatever, an incentive that if they don't do that, then there's going to be some kind of maybe the amounts reduced or whatever it is, but eight years is what we really pushed and hopefully that's what happens.

But I think again, pushing it farther down and making it the responsibility of the state. Now with that comes now, they can't point the finger at DC. They're going to have to point the fingers at themselves if things are taking longer and hopefully that's not going to be the case, but that was the discussion by decentralizing a lot of these functions and responsibilities. It won't take as long to complete a project.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah. Well, you really struck a nerve there with our audience. I'm seeing a lot of reactions, a lot of thumbs up, a lot of hearts. All of us want to see the process go faster to be able to close out these disasters so that our disaster survivors and our communities can set aside the administrative part of disaster recovery. As we're thinking about closeout, of course, that's at the end, right? And so a lot of what we say in the accounting world is we think about the audit at the beginning, so we want to make sure we've got all the processes and all the compliance and proper controls in place. As the council was discussing closeout and making recommendations on expediting the closeout of open disasters, did you guys discuss sort of maintaining that appropriate focus on compliance and proper controls and pairing that with moving quickly?

Mark Cooper:Yeah, we know that it's extremely important and the discussion, a lot of it's centered on the regions and letting them be the ones to oversee that. But certainly at the national level, putting those standards out there, letting the regions help with the monitoring. But you've got very sophisticated, especially the state. Well, the states that have had a lot of disasters, there's a lot of sophistication there. But again, the monitoring is still going to be important and there would be punishment's not the right word, but there would be action taken if they don't comply. And I think that's why it's important that if you're going to engage someone and make sure that firm has experience and experience in managing disasters and providing the oversight and the accounting, because I will say that I think one thing that may happen is that you may have a lot of new firms that pop up, but I think states really need to pay attention because they do not want on the back end or even on the front end have money being taken away because they don't have the proper controls in place that a firm could help them do.

You want to make sure that firm has the experience to do that

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, that's a really great point. And as we're thinking about what the day-to-day looks like, when some of these changes move from recommendations into practice, thinking about the emergency manager's perspective, if you were still in your emergency management position and you were running a state office of Homeland Security and emergency preparedness, how would these recommendations change the way you do your job every day and how would you be supporting your team?

Mark Cooper:Yeah. So I think I would take a look at the report and again, there's recommendations at this point. And by the way, I'll say this at the end again, we're still 30 days to give input on this report. It won't end up in the report, but it will go to DHS and possibly to the president, but I would be looking at that report and seeing where are the gaps, especially for those hurricane states as we come upon hurricane season and what can be done immediately and start working towards that. I mean, don't wait till there's something that comes out from FEMA saying, "Okay, beginning on this in two weeks, we're going We begin this process or whatever. Start working on that now. You could grab the report and just do an assessment of your organization to see if we take this on like the FEMA Review Council is recommending, how are we going to handle it?

Is it going to be in- house? Is it going to be with existing staff? Do we need more staff? Do we need to hire a firm from the outside? Are we going to have to go to the region for assistance? I would be looking at that right now, especially if you're in a state that's about to enter a hurricane season and wildfire season's not far behind that. That's what I would be doing.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, that's a really great point too. I'm glad you brought that up now. So for everyone that's joined us, there is a public comment period open. So as Mark said, go read the report, digest it and how does it affect your state, your community, you as a stakeholder, a disaster survivor, a nonprofit, anyone that's providing a disaster assistance, take a look at that report and provide feedback. I think one of the things too is on sort of unintentionally widening the gap between well-resourced states and those with fewer resources. So I know that that has been discussed quite a bit externally in the public realm of pushing a lot of the responsibility either to the regions or then down to the state. So how did the council discuss any unintentional consequences of pushing responsibility to maybe an under-resourced state that might have a higher disaster burden but doesn't have the resources?

Mark Cooper:Well, we discussed that and I think EMAC, Emergency Management Assistance Compact needs to be beefed up. That's mostly on the response end, but there may be something states could help their brother and sister states that we know don't have the capabilities. I mean, on the Gulf states and the Eastern states for hurricanes, there's a lot of experience there, but you get a hurricane and I'll use this as an example, like in Rhode Island, they're not going to have that kind of experience and not know how to handle public assistance. I mean, I think we talked a lot about leveraging the regional experience from all the states to assist with that. And again, when that exceeds what it's able to do for the states, that's when you start looking at bringing in someone from the outside to help you do that. So yeah, we did talk about it.

We know that's going to be the case. There's a lot of states that don't experience disasters on an annual basis and it may be a five-year event, a 10-year event, but when it hits, they're going to need to know and they want to make sure they're prepared for that. So whether it's by the relationships with other states, relationship with their region, FEMA, having a contract for somebody to help them help walk them through the processes, I think that's what they're going to have to do. But that's certainly going to be an issue for those that don't have disasters. They only just takes one major one, right? And it doesn't necessarily have to be a weather event. It could be something else.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, that's true. And thinking about what the transition looks like, we talked about emergency managers, we talked about states that might be as well resourced that might need to rely on those EMACs. Thinking about the implementation of this, and I know there's no crystal ball, again, these are recommendations and so we're not sure exactly how they're all going to flow from an implementation plan, and you mentioned a timeline just for the public to provide comment, but thinking about your recommendations are now delivered, what happens next? What do you envision happening as we're in a transition of leadership at FEMA? We've got these recommendations from the council.

Mark Cooper:Right. Well, we all know there's been turmoil over the last year, whether it was something that was caused just by the nature of what's been going on or whatever. But the one thing I will say is that, and you asked me about the meeting, Secretary Mullen, I was extremely, and actually that was the second time I've had a meeting with him. One was online and that one was in person. I was extremely impressed with him in his practical approach to this job and his deference to the council and what we put together. I think he's going to do a great job in supporting and he's already said some of the recommendations to your other point earlier, what can states do where they can start looking at them where they're already looking to see which ones they have the authority to do on their own, by policy, by executive order, which ones are going to require Congress to approve.

So he's already started that process, but I was extremely impressed with him and what he brought. And he's from your home state of Oklahoma. So I guess that's what comes out of Oklahoma, people like him and you. And then the other thing I would say too is I've had a chance to get to know the person that's been nominated to be the FEMA administrator, Cam Hamilton and very impressed with him as well. And he too is excited about the opportunity and the reports and the recommendations. And he's also been looking at which ones could be done immediately because again, hurricane season starts in less than two weeks, right? No, a little over two weeks. So I'm very impressed with both of them. I think that this was not like, okay, this is another report. I think they're going to take it seriously, but they've got to present it to the president.

And again, he's got, and I know he's taking it seriously now, hopefully he'll ... And what we're hearing is we know that his direct reports reviewed the report and I'm assuming they probably talked to him about it. They were supportive of it. So I'm feeling optimistic that we will get a mini, if not all of these recommendations implemented

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, that's fantastic. And with the leadership transition comes an opportunity as well for new leaders and fresh eyes and some energy around the recommendations. So thinking a little fast forward again, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but how would you measure success over the next one to two years if these recommendations are adopted? What would that look like? Well,

Mark Cooper:There's probably a way that FEMA could measure that. I know there is a way they could do it and I think what it looks like is that the states and the survivors getting funding quicker and doing away with the bureaucracy, we're going to know whether that's the case or not. And if states are complaining, "Well, I've been waiting for six months to ... " Well, when we're saying it's 30 days, then we know it's not working and that's going to be how we're going to measure the success. The other way we're going to measure it is that states and individuals becoming more resilient so that states for ... I've always said, and I may have said this before with you, is that when there's a tornado that hits a community and you have five homes destroyed, that's never going to qualify for FEMA assistance, not public assistance, probably not IA.

They might be able to do some stuff through the Red Cross, but for those five families, that's their Katrina. So it's not fair that somebody in a large scale disaster gets support. That's where states need to step up. I think when we start seeing that, I know there's already discussion about that. I know Tennessee, I think, just did something on a disaster fund. I know Florida has one. I know in Louisiana we're looking at one. When we start seeing those type of efforts, because that's talked about in the report, then that would be another measurement of success

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, that's fantastic too. Just thinking about one to two years from now, looking at best practices for those that kind of go out early, make some adjustments, adopt some of the recommendations and then states have a little bit of a roadmap to test and refine as some of their other colleagues around the country. So thinking with all successes comes some risks or some unintended consequences, every reform comes with potential risks. So what are the things the council's most wary of the issues that you hope the administration or that Congress handles carefully as they're addressing the recommendations?

Mark Cooper:Well, again, you talked about it earlier and it was about auditing and making sure the funds are being spent correctly. I mean, those are things obviously when you're given more freedom and authority to the states and the locals, that's probably going to be the biggest concern is making sure you've got those guardrails in place. But I think there's ways to do that. And again, if they don't, then there's ways that they can have their funding revoked or whatever, penalties, everything like that. So I think that's probably going to be the biggest one

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense in thinking about, again, sort of that audit readiness, making sure that you've got a compliance framework in place that you're doing the review of your own capabilities internally, thinking about, okay, if some of these recommendations come through and now the states are responsible for certain aspects that maybe FEMA or the FEMA region was responsible for, how are you going to execute? What are you going to do? And so pushing it out even further, not just the one to two years down the road, like fast forward 10 years, you guys have spent an extraordinary amount of time that you have volunteered for the FEMA Review Council and have crisscrossed the country and from your perspective as a council member, if it's 10 years from now and everything works the way that you had hoped, what does the ideal federal state disaster management system look like?

Mark Cooper:Well, we started off with the mantra that it's federally supported, state led and locally executed. If that's all happening, then I think that we've done our job and if that continues to happen. And then the other thing too, across administrations, because these were not Republican or these were not Democratic Party recommendations, these are recommendations for the people of the United States. And so what I would hope would be that going forward that all this work that was put in by a bipartisan group, people on this council, that it would go on from administration to administration to administration. But there's always going to be need for tweaks because there's going to be new technology, things that can help and even streamline processes even more. I think 10 years from now too, that if states are much more resilient than they are right now, not only states, but individuals and families because it begins with them, then I think that our work would have been well served

Jennifer Butler:Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I think making sure that we all understand people say this a lot, that all disasters are local, but it is so true in every sense of the word. We've got to be prepared as individuals, as communities, families, but also in our governments, local, city, state, and making sure that we're all a part of that process. So it matters who our leaders are. It matters that we're paying attention to the things that are in the news and we have opportunities for public comment. And then when decisions are made, that we're contributing also to the implementation of those. So as we wrap up here, we're going to close at about 45 after the hour Just final takeaways of really what do you hope the public takes away from the council's report and the council's efforts?

Mark Cooper:Well, I think number one is that these type of efforts work regardless of what's going on in this country. And I think we showed that, that we can work together. And again, we made a concerted effort to go to all 50 states, didn't matter what the background was of that state. I think that people can take pride in knowing that that still happens in the United States and I'm proud of that. I think that the states and locals and others, the stakeholders, there's a lot of goodwill after this report and recommendation because they know the effort that was put into it. I mean, I think originally they thought, "Oh my gosh, you're going to get rid of FEMA or it's going to be very draconian and cut all these programs and lay all these people off." Well, that was not what the report was about.

So again, I think they can take pride that you can bring Americans together from different backgrounds in different states and they can work together and come up with a report and recommendation that we can all be proud of. So talking about next steps for FEMA, I think we're putting them, even though there's a lot of work that needs to be done there in hurricane season in a little over two weeks. I think that we've set them up at least from the standpoint of where the states and stakeholders are, that they're in a good place as far as these recommendations. I mean, there's some criticism too that needs to be addressed, but for the overwhelmingly reporting I saw and I've heard is that it's been positive about where this report goes. But I think people that are on this podcast and others can take pride that we can come together as Americans still and come up with something that helps everyone.

And again, this is all about the disaster survivors at the end of the day and that this will help them in the end.

Jennifer Butler:Yeah. I think that's really well said and a great place for us to wrap up. We've got a couple of minutes for Q&A, so I might grab a couple of questions, but again, thinking about the fact that the council really kept its eye on the focus, which was the disaster survivors and how best to serve the individuals and the communities. And so your point is well taken in many things sometimes people think there's a lot of influence in politics and it sounds like the council worked really, really hard to debate vigorously, review recommendations, review lots of independent data, take in all of that direct feedback. So certainly appreciate the efforts of the council from that perspective. One of the questions that we had that came in was, was there consideration of the long-term funding via HUD disaster recovery, specifically the interrelation between FEMA and disaster recovery funds.

Was that part of the council's charge at all?

Mark Cooper:I think that was mentioned. And again, it kind of gets back to the housing and talking about housing and urban development and ways to get the funding. Where it was talked about is getting it to the individual and then also only focusing on catastrophic and then there's also discussion about not focusing on long-term housing, not let that be part of what FEMA's doing. So I think that kind of ties into the HUD part of this.

Jennifer Butler:Sure, sure. And then one final thing, you mentioned this while we were talking as well, now that the public's able to read the full report, remind us all how we can stay involved and what comes next.

Mark Cooper:Yeah. I think through the federal registry, they put the report online for comments and people can comment on that and I'm being told they're going to put that information together for DHS and then we're appropriate for the president. And some of these recommendations could be fine tuned or there could be some new recommendations from that. I mean, I think we received, I think it was like 13,000 comments that they through AI were able to congregate those and put them into something that we could look at. So I think that it's going to be time well spent if they can review it and if they've got anything substantive that they can send to DHS, they should do that.

Jennifer Butler:That's fantastic. Yeah. So we encourage public input, don't stop. It's available, it's out there and it's going to help shape that implementation phase. So we've rapidly approached the end of our time here, Mark. I thank you so much for spending time with us today and shedding light on the FEMA Review Council. Again, thank you and all the council members for volunteering over the last year and really, really happy and proud to see it get across the finish line with the council's recommendations. So I'll turn it back over to Savanah. Oh, go ahead, Mark.

Mark Cooper:No, I was just going to say thank you, Jennifer, and thank EisnerAmper because I know you all do a great job in helping states and I'm just proud to be associated with you and thank you for your leadership.

Jennifer Butler:Thanks so much. Okay, Savanah, over to you to wrap us up.

^{Transcribed by Rev.com AI}