How Blockchain Technology is Being Used in the Fight Against COVID-19
April 23, 2020
This webcast features an enlightening discussion with Paige Krieger, Digital Engagement Program Manager - Blockchain Platform at IBM. With COVID-19 testing the limits of modern-day health care systems, our timely discussion will highlight ways in which Blockchain technology is making significant inroads in the medical field.
DA:Paige, want to start off with a little bit about your background and introduce yourself and then we'll jump right into some questions?
PK:Yeah, sure. My name's Paige Krieger as they mentioned, and I'm usually based out of Dallas, but coming to you from Phoenix, Arizona as we speak. And I've been at IBM for three years now and focused on Blockchain since the beginning. However, I feel like right now and considering the current situation in the world, Blockchain has become more relevant than ever, and it's really drawn an emphasis on the need for transparency and visibility and ultimately trust in all the interactions that we have, whether it's with businesses, with each other or just with the environment in general. So I've really enjoyed being able to learn and research how Blockchain both within and outside of IBM has started to be applied. So I'm really grateful for the opportunity, excited to be here and look forward to answering your questions and connecting afterwards.
DA:Yes, thank you so much. Okay, so let's jump into some questions. Can you start off maybe discuss some of the ways in which the healthcare industry has started looking to Blockchain to improve some of these efficiencies. And feel free to cite use cases if you like.
PK:Yeah. So I think the first thing I want to address is just the traceability aspect of Blockchain and the ability to leverage that to track donations, medications, and most importantly right now, medical supplies. And so as we have so much data, the most foundational thing that we need right now is to add the trust, the immutability and the transparency to that data. And that comes with being really crucial in tracking initiatives on the cases, on potential treatments, and even on human movement. So whether you're working at a hospital or you're a first responder, government entity, supplier, all of these different players need a database where this data can be stored, trusted, and as you probably have seen on the news, the information is changing quickly and there's different sources of reporting. So even some of the most trusted sources like the Weather Channel or the CDC, have different numbers of cases of deaths, of outbreak areas. And so it's really important that we have a single source of truth that's trusted, verified and that we can rely on in this time of uncertainty.
With this distributed ledger, it takes out the aspect of a traditional database, which is a single administrator on the backend and there's potential for human error, there's potential for a misinformation and even fraud in the worst case scenario. So I think that Blockchain as a whole is really addressing the needs of both businesses and consumers. And so with all these different variables, we really need to commit to accuracy and allow the professionals who are on the front lines to be spending time worrying about solving the problem and not on whether the data they're being supplied with is in fact true.
To get some more specifics I think the first and most common use case that I've been reading about and that IBM has been involved with is around supply chain, specifically for PPE tests and eventually vaccines. So ensuring that the resources that we do have are sent to the right place as quickly as possible, and that there's nothing on the backend that's slowing down these processes. Another one that I really think is important is around medical records and digitizing these and even making themselves sovereign, so that patients will have control over who has access to their data and they can even decide to open up their data to be used in clinical trials. So that would give the patient more control, but also greater access for the common good. And when mentioning clinical trials, I think it comes down to the phrase of, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
We have all these great research institutions that are doing work in a variety of locations, but if they're not sharing their findings, then we're potentially duplicating efforts and slowing down the process and the progress toward finding a vaccine that will eventually mitigate the number of cases and potentially prevent deaths. We can look to credential verification, which is important as so many medical professionals are coming out of retirement or going back if they had switched to another career path, they're volunteering. And so being able to verify that they are in fact certified to be playing these roles and they still have valid credentials, that's an important aspect. Donation tracking, whether it's charity or even blood plasma, there's a variety of these cases there.
And then lastly, insurance claims. I think that's going to come to play more as we start to recover from this, but at the same time just being able to have a Blockchain-based system. I know Ant Financial is one example of a company that's using their already existing Blockchain claim sharing platform. They added function specific to coronavirus, helping to reduce paperwork and basically eliminate the need for the back and forth delivery of documents through this digitization.
DA:It's interesting. So what I'm hearing is that the Blockchain used in healthcare really runs the gamut. I mean it's everything from coming together to create a vaccine and to store all clinical trials to patients controlling their own healthcare records to donations, as you say, and supply chains which is, I know, a big topic of conversation now. So maybe we just dive in a little bit into some of these to give a little bit more of a broader perspective. So you had mentioned, and I guess the first one was interesting because we had met actually at an event, the Digital Asset Strategy Summit in October, I saw you speak. And you used the phrase on the panel, which I thought was fascinating talking about this concept of patient passports. And can you describe what you mean by that, what it means to have these digitized patient records and how that might impact the future of healthcare.
PK:Yeah, so I think patient passports is something, and I'm sure there's a startup or a corporation out there that has patented the term. But I think it's something that describes the ability to not only control and have your data in one place regarding your medical and your vaccinations and immunity and all of that, but also to be able to permission access to providers on an as-needed basis. So just like you use your passport to validate your citizenship, you would use your patient passport to validate your vaccinations, to validate that you have indeed tested negative and that you have the antibody test or whatever it might be coming out of this. But at the same time, it prevents every time you go to the doctor, you're having to fill out so much paperwork, and if you go to a different doctor that doesn't transfer over if they're in separate systems.
It's really a matter of increasing the efficiency, granting greater privacy, and then just relying on decentralized self-sovereign identity. And you can increase the access of your information if you're willing to do so. Like I said before, if you want to contribute to the research into clinical trial, that's one piece, but then also if you want to be notified, if you've been in an area where there was an outbreak or you may have come in contact with someone that could be leveraged and also connected with your digital patient passport.
I think those are some really important facets. And one that's especially crucial right now is in case of emergency, and I believe that it was Walmart who was working on this previously. But basically, it would be something that could be stored on say an Apple watch or anything that you carry with you, even your phone. And in case of emergency, these responders could get access to just the most pertinent records, whether it's your allergies or preexisting conditions, so that if you are in this situation, they can assist you as necessary and really be notified of these conditions which you are not able to do if you're incapacitated at the time. Although it may not be as COVID specifics since a lot of times these symptoms are a gradual onset, it still could be used after COVID and for other emergency response situations.
It's interesting. And it's also because the patient actually owns their own data, so they could basically approve of what elements of their health background or their health file that they actually want to share. Is that correct?
Yes, exactly. And in some cases, there could be monetary rewards for that. It just depends on the need for the data and who's requesting the data, and then also I think the temporary permissioning is a huge piece, because although patients could own right now, without Blockchain, you would basically have to grant access to all of the data indefinitely, but with Blockchain, you have that kind of permissioning aspect and also you can determine to what degree they can see. So maybe they just see at a high level your preexisting conditions and your allergies as opposed to all your vaccination records, all of your doctor's visits. And then when it comes to connecting across different medical providers, they can potentially be seeing more of a continuous record as opposed to just their siloed record of your visits to their practice.
DA:Right. I mean it amazes me that right now that they're not completely connected. I mean that's just... it's mind blowing. Let's jump in a little bit into the supply chain because that's really been a big... that's really been newsworthy lately people are talking a lot about especially when it comes to medical supply chains in the news and where our medical products are coming from, different parts of the supply chain. And I know that there are issues with that. So how's Blockchain used to actually help that or fix that?
PK:Yeah, so I think it all starts with the data gathering, tallying the data, reconciling the data across databases, and then allowing this data to then dictate what our next steps are as far as getting that inventory out to the right people or working with the right suppliers. As supply chains are today, they're reactive, they're not proactive. And that's because they lack this visibility and this accountability that Blockchain provides. So if we have more proactive and reliable supply chains, we're able to give that visibility and establish trust in the transaction accuracy because there's numerous parties verifying that this is indeed true. And the key piece that I think isn't addressed as often is that we all heard about how there were fraudulent test kits sent out.
PK:Well, with Blockchain, if you're combining that with EDI technology and IoT and different aspects of technology that already exists, you could verify that the goods weren't exchanged or tampered with along the supply chain so that sure we can expedite the supply chain. But if we're sending faulty goods, then that defeats the whole purpose. So smart contracts will have a huge role in this because they can be implemented for payment. So for anyone that's not familiar with the way that I like to describe smart contracts are as opposed to just a digitized contract, it's essentially an if-then statement embedded into code. So if Dara pays me, then this shipment gets sent. So that's an oversimplified way, but I think it's important to clarify what the role of smart contracts would be. And it's just eliminating a lot of that manual approval process that takes a lot of time.
PK:Freight documents, they've already been in the process through solutions like TradeLens, Marco Polo. They've been essentially leveraged and digitized, but if we were to expand these to encompass more suppliers and more companies and consumers, then we'd be able to expose this transaction data, GPS coordinates, timestamps, whatever it might be, and then be able to get quicker access to relevant information. So last but not least, I think that the privacy aspect of different suppliers, and I'll touch on this later, but when you're working with unknown suppliers, it takes time to establish that trust, whereas if they know that their transactions are going to be private and only exposed to those that they pertain to, then they're more willing to collaborate in a quicker manner rather than taking that time to go through the vetting process.
DA:Interesting. And especially I know that IBM in the past had participated in the Mango Project a couple of years ago when they were looking at the origins of mangoes and then we had issues on shelves with romaine lettuce and having to go back and basically all the lettuce was taken off the shelf and all that money was lost because you couldn't really go and figure out which came from the bad farm or whatever it was. So you could imagine also just with medicines. If all medicines around the world, the supply chain, the medical supply chain was put onto the Blockchain, there was a recall and any kind of medication even over the counter. We would be able to instantly be able to go back and pull that from the shelf and make that more efficient.
PK:Exactly. And that pulls in an example of what's being described as crypto-anchors. And I know that this is something that IBM IIX and research has been working on, but essentially, it's basically a chemical signature, or I call it invisible ink that would be on these prescription or these medication pills. And you'd be able to validate with something like a lens on your iPhone or even an application, whether or not your prescription or your medication is fraudulent or is in fact what you think it is. And so there's been so many issues, especially in developing countries with counterfeit drugs, that if you're able to allow the consumer to validate for themselves that what they think they're taking is actually truly what they're taking, then we're able to mitigate the risk of all of the fraud and tampering with the medications that currently exist. So when it comes to a vaccine, that could be important. When it comes to test kits, that can be important. Just another aspect that takes what food trusted with the mangoes to another level.
DA:Yeah. That's amazing. So speaking of vaccines, because I know that's really on everybody's mind right now too. How could Blockchain be used to expedite a vaccine?
PK:I think it's indirect in that Blockchain would be helping to bring visibility to the findings of all of these tests and research centers that are, I guess, simultaneously occurring and maybe not cross communicating between. I go back to the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, if we're able to bring one place where this data can be shared and leveraged by a variety of institutions, then say there is a finding or there is a successful vaccine, we can get it shared more broadly than much quicker and we can enable people to get the vaccines out to the areas that are most effected. So we're pulling in data from the Weather Channel or all of these different sources that are showing hotspots of the infection, and then we're saying, "Okay, let's get these vaccines here."
It pulls in supply chain, it pulls in clinical trials, it pulls in really all these different aspects that we've touched on and it's going to expedite availability and the efficiency of getting it out. It may not necessarily expedite finding a vaccine from the get-go because Blockchain doesn't solve all problems. But as far as the execution piece, I think that it's going to improve the efficiency and ensure that when vaccines are sent out, they're in the right place at the right time.
DA:Yeah. Well, it's interesting also because now we're seeing all these clinical trials of even just treatments. And there are many of them happening all parts of the world. And it's interesting because now really the whole world is kind of unified and looking for whether it's a COVID-19 vaccine or treatments. So with all of these clinical trials that are going on, how is Blockchain being used to improve the veracity of those clinical trials? Because that's been an issue. You read and you're trying to figure out, "Okay, how accurate or truthful is this clinical trial versus another? Are they communicating with each other?"
PK:Yeah. So I think if these were to be on a Blockchain backed system, that would eliminate that uncertainty at least to a degree. And it would enable patients to permission their data like we were talking about. So if the patient themselves was verifying that, "Yes, this is my data, I was part of this clinical trial and I'm allowing it to be published." You're verifying it from the source as well as from the medical provider as well as from the research Institute, wherever it's coming from. And then since there are on a Blockchain multiple sources of verification validation, it also increases accountability. So it makes people and organizations less likely to post false information because it's available to the community and it's something that could be called out if in fact it contradicts other findings.
I think it's just shining a light on the findings and then making sure that people know that what they put out there is in fact up for debate and could be contradicted because it's visible. So it just holds people accountable. It's more of a transparent way of doing this research, and then exposing findings from clinical trials to then draw parallels between these different trials and potentially connect the dots at a more rapid pace.
DA:Right now, how it's done is basically doctors going out there, there're performing scientists performing clinical trials and then they're writing about it, writing reports or studies and sharing that. But the accuracy or the truth, you don't really know you know, and at least if it's on the Blockchain, it can't be changed, it can't be tampered with. So you know exactly the patient, the age, any underlying condition, I mean, every single factor that they would need to know is all in there and embedded into the technology, into the Blockchain.
PK:Exactly. And it's important to note that it might not necessarily be stored directly on the Blockchain, but it could just be a fingerprint of that data or what they call a hash. That's then can be called out to the database where it's stored, depending on different GDPR, PPI, whatever it might be involving personal information and the degree to which the patient granted that access. But it's also important to note that in the case of permissioned Blockchains, everyone has an identity. So it's not like a Bitcoin Blockchain or an Ethereum Blockchain where all of these are anonymous, it's going to show who published that information, when they published it. And then if for some reason there is some contradiction or a change that needs to be made, it's like taking a test in pen. So it's going to cross out the initial information, but it never erases anything. It just crosses it out and then contradicts it with the truth. So it gives this audit trail, it brings transparency, and also it provides identity, which is really key.
DA:It's interesting because the COVID-19 pandemic arrived at a time when Blockchain was really first emerging in using it in healthcare. But now we're really learning more, we're becoming smarter, we're starting to use it. Do you think that because of what we're learning now from using Blockchain within this whole crisis and what we're doing that this Blockchain may be used to help mitigate the impact of a future pandemic?
PK:Yeah, I definitely do. I think that although it won't prevent the emergence of one because that's inevitable, it creates the first line of defense through a network of connected devices that are then backed by trusted data sources. And so it can help to decelerate pandemics by enabling early detection, fast response and fast tracking these drug trials and vaccine distribution. And it really just assist with treatment management and having a more holistic view of the number of cases, the number of where treatments have been found, what's been successful, what hasn't been, and then digitizing records in general. I mean it's the concept of digitizing paper-based processes that's really needed, so it makes the supply chains more resilient to these future shocks that'll come from future pandemics.
DA:It's interesting. It's almost like right now where we're building the foundation. So we're getting everything set for what to do in the future. It's like we pressed a button as opposed to... We're building it now, so we're still in that process. So what other areas do you think the healthcare industry are expected to have the most impact from Blockchain technology?
PK:I feel like I have been echoing just the ideas around supply chain, PPE and then mainly just enabling stakeholders to connect more quickly with the suppliers that they may not have traditionally worked with, enabling the track and trace of goods, the authentication of goods, document management, ownership transfer of all of the above. And then just looking at demand planning and being able to say, "Okay, this is how much we're getting from a demand side, where can we fulfill these needs on the supply side?" And then enabling the suppliers and consumers to be more connected. That's the biggest piece that I think. And then around digitization of medical records, that's going to be huge. I mean that's something that, whether there was a pandemic or not, it's critical and it's needed. And I think it's just really accelerated progress in the healthcare industry and hopefully shine a light on the need for this and the need for it sooner rather than later.
DA:Yeah, it's going to be really interesting just to see how the whole healthcare industry is really undergoing this incredible transformation right now through technology. Even touch people are talking about telemedicine just even with that. I mean during this quarantine, I had three telemedicine appointments and it was great. They were 15 minutes long, I didn't have to leave my house.
DA:It's pretty amazing just the role and I think we're starting to really understand now and realize just how significant technology is to our lives. So it's really interesting watching this whole thing unfold. What efforts is IBM directly? I know you guys have been doing so much in the space. And in not only healthcare, but just in the Blockchain, using Blockchain for a number of industries. Can you talk a little bit about some of the efforts that IBM is directly contributing or spearheading with regards to Blockchain? And you can talk about within... broadly or even specifically with COVID-19 relief efforts.
PK:Yeah. And that's something that I think all of us as IBMers and hopefully others in the tech space have been seeing a bit of the involvement around, dedicating supercomputers to expediting different potential chemical combinations that can help combat the virus or working with the weather company to create... Now, if you go on weather.com, you can click a COVID-19 tab and search by county and see how many cases there are, how many deaths there are, and really just providing visibility that we wouldn't have necessarily had if it weren't corporations like IBM and many others that are stepping up to join in the fight against COVID. And so I think I want to touch on two main things that are COVID specific. The first being a relatively new and rapidly expedited project called Rapid Supplier Connect. And that's something that combines IBM Blockchain and IBM Sterling which is a supply chain inventory visibility solution.
PK:And so we're essentially... And we're working with one of our partners Chainyard, and so this was a collaboration between a lot of different entities. And the whole idea around it is imagining a network where individuals can be identified, their healthcare credentials verified, and then on the backend, all of these nontraditional suppliers are stepping up to meet shortages. And so this solution combines validated source of identity from our Trust Your Supplier solution, with real-time inventory availability and visibility from IBM Sterling. And it helps buyers match and work with new suppliers that may be not necessarily ones that they've traditionally worked with. So take Ford, for example, in their manufacturing of ventilators. They don't typically work with the suppliers of the parts that make up a ventilator. So how can they more quickly validate the identity of the supplier, establish trust with them, and then even execute the onboarding and the transaction process with them?
That's really the purpose around Rapid Supplier Connect. And the best part about this that makes me most excited is that, this solution is being offered for free at no cost for the first 120 days. And so any suppliers, no matter how big or how small can onboard to the rapid solution. And there's actually a dedicated team to help with that onboarding. And it's really going to help goods move faster, but that's because of the efficiencies that are being made on the back end, especially when you look at cross border where there's even more trust that needs to be established and more, I guess, legal and best practices that need to be shared and agreed upon before these processes can be executed. So it's really a great effort, more corporations are getting involved and I'm really excited that IBM is spearheading it in collaboration with Chainyard.
DA:That's amazing. So is that already in progress now? Has that begun? And the Ford example that you used, is it being done to use, for example, in the manufacturing of ventilators?
PK:I'm not positive on who's on boarded just yet because I think that that's been kept proprietary for now. I know that there's a press release coming out most likely on Monday that'll mention more of the participants. However, in the resources section, I did include a link that explains more about the rapid solution. And then at the IBM Think conference that's happening digitally, May 5th through 7th, there's going to be a session that expands upon Rapid Supplier Connect, how to get involved and just the different steps that suppliers can take to contribute.
DA:That's amazing because it's not only making things more efficient and expediting the manufacturing process. It's also democratizing supply chains across the globe. I mean that's really fascinating too.
PK:Yeah. And just the fact of how quickly it's come together is what's really mind boggling to me because we're just pulling together existing solutions, collaborating with different innovators and companies across the space and enabling something that's at no cost, which is pretty much unheard of when you think of traditional IBM.
DA:Yeah, that's amazing. So we have a couple of questions that came in. Let's just jump to a couple of audience questions. Here's one, how difficult is it to onboard all parties, hospitals, and their ability to provide counts and status to a Blockchain network? Considering building a network of participating parties is a challenging task.
PK:And that's a very fair question. So I appreciate that and I hope that by explaining the Rapid Supplier solution and by looking at it, that will bring light to some of the processes that we're trying to standardize and expedite to make that onboarding process easier. I think one of the biggest hurdles, and this is what I've learned just being in Blockchain the past three years, is that getting everyone to agree to standardization to governance, if that's already pre-established, it makes the onboarding process and the progress of the network that much quicker and it goes that much more smoothly. So I think when you have a prebuilt solution that customers can just onboard to, and we've seen this with IBM Food Trust too, there's different modules that they can join or there's different aspects of the network that they can participate in. So by making it more of a standardized solution, that enables more rapid onboarding.
And then also with Rapid Supplier Connect, I mean there's a dedicated team of people that are answering calls that are getting the right people connected. And then it's really creating a profile that's standardized. And in 15 to 20 minutes, you can have a company as a supplier uploaded onto this portal. So it's making the information readily available and having a stage set so that the players can just jump right in without having to go through establishing the governance and the standards and incentive models and all the things that make Blockchain networks more complicated and more timely. In situations like these, the players are willing to give access to their data if it means that they're going to benefit the wellbeing of everyone as well as the industry. So I think it's just a matter of collaboration and cooperation that combine with the technological advances to make it a simpler process than typically perceived.
DA:And how do companies find out about this to know, to go and register or apply to participate in that?
PK:Ideally, it's just through a word of mouth, press releases. Hopefully, it'll get some media coverage just to... I think that since cost isn't a barrier, it's really something that it doesn't hurt and if you at least try it out, you can see how much visibility it provides. And I think that hopefully IBM, Chainyard will do its part in spreading the message and through even webcasts like this. I mean, it's just a matter of sharing with people that this exists and then also encouraging involvement and not putting up any cost barrier that could prohibit them from doing so.
DA:Well, I'm glad we're doing this because at least it's something to at least get the message out there because there are a lot of companies within the supply chain as you said, that this is all... there are new companies coming in to manufacturer just in the ventilator example and they don't have those relationships with those suppliers and now here, that's just opening up even new future business as well and establishing new relationships. And I think that's fantastic.
Okay, we have another question here too, we'll jump into that. This one, how much of what's being discussed actually is in use right now in healthcare of the technology? And how much is just theoretical use cases? How quickly are use cases moving towards actual implemented technology solutions?
PK:I think there's two different categories. I think when we talk about the supply chain initiatives, like I said, Rapid Supplier Connect is a real live solution, there's companies participating, there's opportunities to onboard and get involved. There's another project that I actually wanted to touch on too, that's an example of something that's real, it's live and you can get involved in it today. This is more so a call for developers and the project's calling data warriors. So anyone that can contribute data to this project, which is called MiPasa. And that was a partnership that started with HACERA, IBM, now involves Oracle, Microsoft, the World Health Organization, John Hopkins, different governments like Canada, China. So it's really pulling together a bunch of different players. And what it is, is a data hub that aggregates, validates, and then shares that data so that applications can be built by developers on top of it.
It's written on top of Hyperledger Fabric, it's running on IBM Blockchain Platform on the backend. And the whole point of it is to facilitate quicker detection of transmitters, hotspots and then secure and integrate data sources that are typically disparate, and allow the community to recognize errors or misreporting and then combine the reliable feeds. Because even if you look at the CDC and what they're reporting versus what's on the Weather Channel versus what's coming from the World Health Organizations, the numbers differ drastically. So it's like for any of these solutions to really be built on trusted sources of data, that's why Blockchain is needed. It's on the back end. It's not necessarily something that everyone's contributing to, it's just leveraging something like MiPasa to build applications on top of, so that those applications are relying on trusted data.
I think when it comes to digitizing medical records, I know that there's various projects in the works, I know that there's numerous startups that are working on that. I think that although some of them aren't necessarily 200 network members like IBM Food Trust, they still are gaining traction and getting visibility because of the current situation and the need for them. So I think that the answer is yes, some are theoretical, and yes, some are inaction and can be participated in as we speak. I think that the technology is there to be able to track a mango back to the farm it was grown on. That technology can be applied to track a vaccine back to where it was produced or to track data around a clinical trial to see who contributed that data to the findings.
The foundation is laid and like Dara you were saying, I think that step had to be taken and it's going to take longer for certain solutions than others. But I mean there's the end goal in mind and I think there's the vision and now there's the need that the industries and the governments are recognizing. So it's just a matter of time before these solutions that are currently theoretical use cases become actionable solutions.
DA:It's interesting. And just in case the audience didn't know, just with respect to the Mango Project with IBM and Walmart, I think when they try to find originally the origin of the mango, it started off, they gave each person in the conference room sitting along the table a mango and said, "Tell me the origin." And they came back and it took them probably a couple of weeks or whatever it was. And when they moved to put it on the Blockchain to test it out, it took all of two seconds or something like that to discover the origin. So you could just imagine the impact that this could have when you look at the supply chain just from the medical side, it's fascinating really. Where can attendees and participants, people in the supply chain, where can everybody learn more?
PK:There's definitely in the resources section that you guys will see on your screen. I've linked a few different things. The first being the blog post around MiPasa. And then that explains the thought process that went in. And then I also included the MiPasa direct website, which is where you can click, it says call for data warriors at the top and you can figure out how to get involved. It's through the HACERA Unbounded Network, which is also something if you're in the Blockchain space or just curious about projects going on in the Blockchain space, it's something almost like yellow pages or a directory of Blockchain networks, not just Hyperledger Fabric, but any of the protocols. And you can search it or post your project there and see if there's others working on similar initiatives to either collaborate with them or see how you can potentially leverage what they're working on. So it's a really interesting thing. That was a side note.
Back to the question. I think that looking at those different websites and then I think digital event is actually free this year. And so it's days’ worth of content, whether it's live sessions that are hands on technical labs where you can actually use the IBM Blockchain Platform and others of our solutions, or there's on demand sessions. And like I said, one of the sessions is strictly around MiPasa and Rapid Supplier Connect, and they're going to talk about how the projects came to be, how to get and more detailed steps. So hopefully, the links that are provided can give you some direction as to where to sign up or how to get involved. And then obviously, I mean, feel free to message me. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Twitter. I believe those are both linked in my profile. So feel free to reach out, I can get you connected. And I think it's really just important that everyone do their part and even if it's just spreading that these initiatives exist word of mouth, I mean that's half the battle.
PK:Hopefully you guys will join us in doing that.
DA:Wow. Thank you so much Paige. Really, this was incredibly enlightening and I'm actually looking forward to sharing this video even on my personal Facebook page because I've had friends that because of this, they have businesses that are in the manufacturing space, not related to medical supplies, but started getting involved in that to help out especially given what's going on. So this was incredibly enlightening and I really thank you for joining us today. So this was terrific. And with that-
PK:Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me.
DA:Yeah, thank you. And thank you everyone for joining.