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Jan 5, 2022

In this podcast Natalie McVeigh, Managing Director in the Center for Individual and Organizational Performance, discusses Simple Assessments; DISC or MBTI, for example. We call these four-box model assessments because they are based on four distinct personality styles people have, and the combinations between them. The results are how we present ourselves through pace, style, and personality. Knowing how we show-up allows us to better adapt our responses in various situations.


matt kerzner:

Hello. I'm Matt Kerzner, and I'm the director in the Center for Individual and Organizational Performance. And I'm excited today to work here with my colleague, Natalie McVeigh. She is a director in EisnerAmper's Center for Individual & Organizational Performance. I'm delighted to have Natalie join us today. Natalie, thank you for being with us.

natalie mcveigh: Hi Matt. It's so wonderful to be here today.

mk: Thank you. In our past podcasts, we've gotten into all the different assessments that we offer in the Center. I am interested to take a deep dive into the four box model description, so can you tell us a little bit about that, and the importance of it?
nm: Yeah, absolutely. A four box model assessment, there's several different types. The most common are either the DiSC's or the Myers-Briggs, and why they're common is they're really simple. They're descriptive assessment that describes how you are in general and your personality, so they usually talk about introversion, extroversion, and several other aspects like pace, people, and process.
mk:Excellent. Now, people love the DiSC or the Myers-Briggs, as you mentioned. Right? Why are those so common?
nm:They're common because they're easily understood. They take very little time, and they have high, what's called face validity. That means when you go take it free online, although those might not be the most valid, you read it, and you say, "Gosh. That sounds like me. I really get it." It also explains a little bit why your colleague or your sibling might not be like you. You start understanding that rub between you, so we'll talk about pace, someone's faster, someone's slower. Or when you're having a meeting, and you now know you have introversion and extroversion, why some people are quiet in the meetings and will follow up two days later with an email, and you wish they would've told you right then and there, but you understand they need to process on their own.
mk:Excellent. Tell me, what do the four box model... What do they measure?
nm:They're measuring how we want to show up in the world, not how competent we are, not how capable we are, but how are behaviors and our actions interact with one another. So, if I know that I am highly task oriented, and I like to get a lot done, and I'm detail remembering, I can inadvertently be annoying my colleagues, because I'm going to remember everything they said, when they said it, how they said it, and so on and so forth. It's also useful for my colleagues to know that I may ask questions and think about those details, because that's how I process the world around me, not because I'm lying awake at night, trying to make them miserable. So, not how successful you are, but how you do what you do, waking up in the morning as yourself, and when you interact with others.
mk:That's excellent, Natalie. Before I get into another question... Well, this is a question, but I'm really curious about who would you give this assessment to. Right? Individuals, teams, I'm curious about this four box model, and who's the best audience for this.
nm: Both. These four box models, as I said, they're accessible. They're usually less expensive. They're also pretty easy to hear, so if this is your first foray into being a self-aware individual or self-aware team, this is the assessment for you. And why we're certified in both is because we're assessment agnostics. If your organization already uses one or the other, and you buy them in bulk, and no one's ever had a debrief, this is the time to find someone to help do a debrief to make it really actionable. It's also really important to note for my teammate, how I'm showing up in the world, once I'm aware how I'm showing up in the world.
mk:Excellent. I'm curious about I've taken assessment two years ago, then I'll take the assessment again. Do they change over time? Does the results change?
nm:Depends on if you're doing a valid one. If you're not doing a highly valid DiSC or Myers-Briggs, you might not be correct. Many of those free online ones aren't probably giving you your metric, and death, divorce, disability, those all impact your scores. However, when you think about the Myers-Briggs, your S and your N can flex, and so you're sensing, which is data versus your creative thinking and intuitive, and it's not that binary, but it's close. Depending on what you're working on, your S and your N can flex. It's also important to know in your DiSC, you have two styles. You have the style that you wake up in the morning, and then the style you think you need to bring to work, so that's also flexing, and that's another way in which they can change to some extent.
mk:That's excellent. Great points. What is the most important thing that you want our audience to remember when they're utilizing these, or this four box model?
nm:It's not just about you. People get really excited, as you should, when I know more about myself. I'm an INTJ, or I'm an SD, and I want everyone to know that means these are the things that I need from you, and we put little placards in our office. But there's a different component. This is the awareness of what I impact the world as. So an INTJ may be too literal, may be abrupt, so the question is, what is everyone else who's not like me? That's why they often give you population ranges. If you're in the 2% of the population, it isn't how 98% of people behave and talk towards you. It's how do you behave? How do you talk, so that the other 98% can really understand you? I think that's the piece that we miss in some of these very simple assessments, is we're so excited about ourselves that we forget how we can change to be better heard for everyone else.
mk:Excellent. Excellent. Well, Natalie, I want to thank you so much for taking the time out to be part of this podcast series for the Center. It was a pleasure talking with you today. If you'd like to have some more information, we have plenty of information on our website, Natalie, thank you for being with us today.
nm:Thanks Matt. It was so fun.

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Natalie M. McVeigh

Natalie McVeigh is a Managing Director in the Center for Individual and Organizational Performance and the Center for Family Business Excellence Group within the Private Client Services Group and has more than 10 years of experience as a consultant and coach.

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